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Post by Xicrog on Sept 6, 2007 16:50:10 GMT -5
In this topic, we discuss annoying things that happen in fanfiction.
The big one for me is...not Mary Sues! Not bad romance! Not even horrible grammar! It's hand-waving. Which is to say, dismissing key plot points- like character death, endings, etc. with a wave of the hand and an "Oh, that never happened as far as I'm concerned." In the author's notes and little other explaination. Uh, yes it did. You want to write a fic where that plot point didn't happen, you either write an AU or write in the time period where it really didn't happen.
In a less extreme form, a very poor explaination is given as to why the plot point never happened.
I'm writing this with one of my major fandoms in mind. I'm a Wild Arms fan- it was my first RPG, and pretty near and dear to my heart. WA3 is my all-time favorite RPG, and it also has one of my all-time favorite endings in any medium. I'll need to explain the ending to explain the hand-waving phenomenon better, so...
ENDING SPOILERS FOR WILD ARMS 3
In the ending of Wild Arms 3, the Maxwell Gang ends up unintentionally killing Lamium (sort of...or maybe it's more like he kills himself... you'd have to see it.) And then, at the worst possible time, when Ginny and company are trying to figure out what to do, Lamium's second-in-command comes charging in. So they can't really give a straight answer as to why Lamium is dead and there are bullet casings on the floor and char marks on the walls, as the truth is a bit far-fetched, so they high-tail it the heck out of there. In the ending sequence, we see a wanted poster with their names on it and an ample reward...and a patch of flowers growing in the wasteland, indicating that Filgaia is starting to regenerate itself.
END SPOILERS
I absolutely love the ending. Unlike the other WA endings, it's just the right mix of bitter and sweet. The Drifters made some major sacrifices, but in the end they did win. And they didn't go randomly killing off main characters. I mean, whenever that happens it's more of a #$^*&@! feeling. The sacrifice of freedom- which Virginia was harping over for most of the game- actually seemed way more significant and devastating to me.
In short, 4 was too bitter, the others were kind of sticky-sweet. Dunno about 5, but considering the trend it'll be pretty bitter.
Sadly, no one else seems to agree with me. The ending gets subjected to so much hand-waving. I can only think of one fanfiction that treats it like it actually happened. The others kind of shove it off to the side despite the fact that what happened to them kind of changes Drifting a lot, or hand-wave it off.
SPOILERS FOR WA3 ENDING AGAIN
The worst example of this was a reasonably well-written otherwise piece that provided (in the first chapter, nonetheless!) the hand-wave of "Oh look, the Maxwell Gang is old news now." Um...no. Everyone's under the impression they killed one of the world's leaders. I don't think people are going to just forget about them, even if it has been five years since the end of the game. They'll just tag a resisting arrest charge on them and knock the bounty up a few hundred thousand Gella. Sheesh. And I know why you did it, but I think that Ginny the Outlaw President would be the most awesome thing ever, and she would still beat Dictator!Maya in an election due to sheer charisma and the fact she's the lesser of two evils.
END SPOILERS
Okay, what're everyone elses pet peeves? I'm not the only easily annoyed person on here, I know that much.
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ikkin
Villager
In possession of an angry phoenix. Very dangerous. Do not cross.
Posts: 73
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Post by ikkin on Sept 8, 2007 19:45:50 GMT -5
My biggest pet peeve with fanfiction is... AkuRoku! how the only thing that matters to the fanwriters is romance.
Really, the best fanfiction that I read explores parts of the story besides romance and no, that's not just because I tend to avoid romantic fanfic. >_> . When there's so much else out there to write about - from how the major events in the canon affect people who aren't the main characters (To use Kingdom Hearts for examples - what's it like to be restored to a full person after being a Heartless for years? What do Sora's parents think happened to their son?) to the mechanics of how things actually worked out (how did the apprentices' experiments turn into what they did?) to how the main characters are changed by the things they go through and how they live once they don't have to worry about saving the world anymore (what's it like to go all over the place saving the world, then come back to find that you missed a year of high school and actually need to deal with it?).
But, instead, a majority of fanfic seems to be all about the 'shippings, no matter whether they're canon, fanon, or crack, forcing characters into unlikely situations and ruining their characters (and often even doing away with both altogether and making a high school AU, because everyone knows that high school is about nothing besides dating and dances) to fit the author's idea of who would be "cute" together.
Sometimes, it seems that any interaction in fanfic must be romantic, even if it's not that way in canon. No, Axel and Roxas (Kingdom Hearts again >>) can't just be friends, and Ed and Al (Fullmetal Alchemist) can't just be brothers, they've got to be in love. Regardless of any little things that could get in the way, like massive age difference or familial relations.
And then, to make things even worse, people claim that they have pairings where the interactions could be interpreted as entirely platonic, and forget to mention pairings where they really should be noted.
...that probably sounded more bitter than it should have. >>;;;
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Post by Xicrog on Sept 9, 2007 13:21:54 GMT -5
Ikkin: A-freaking-men. You know what's the worst though? The mysogynistic slash fangirls (and every once in a while, boys) who are under the impression that m/m is so much purer than m/f (or my secret shame, m/f/m). And it's basically just the same thing, except with matching genitals. I mean, the dynamics are the same- there is a submissive (i.e. feminine) partner and a dominant (i.e. masculine) partner. In fact, I'd say the average het fic makes more egalitarian/gender-positive statements than your average slash fic.
It's mystifying really. Mystifying in the manner that it makes me want to place my head between my laptop's monitor and keyboard, then slam it shut repeatedly. And I'd say the worst example of this was the whole fiasco with Akito the not-guy in the Fruits Basket manga. I'll elaborate if someone wants me too...
People who overanalyze for subtext are annoying too. Freud is dead. So are his theories. STOP USING THEM. I'm sure this is news to some fangirls, but it's true. I know Maslow or Rogers aren't going to lend credence to your crack pairing, but if you want to use pseudopsychology at least use some with a bit of credibility. Especially with rivalcest- can't two guys just kill each other in peace anymore without folks squealing in delight and frantically gesturing to the supposed sexual tension between them? Furthermore, can't characters just be asexual until shown otherwise? That's the stance I usually take.
It also makes it seem like guys can't just be friends, there absolutely must be something deeper between them. Like all men can think about is lust. In that sense, I think overzealous slashers are kind of misandrist too.
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Elycien
Young Farmboy/girl
Posts: 120
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Post by Elycien on Sept 9, 2007 14:37:15 GMT -5
It's mystifying really. Mystifying in the manner that it makes me want to place my head between my laptop's monitor and keyboard, then slam it shut repeatedly. And I'd say the worst example of this was the whole fiasco with Akito the not-guy in the Fruits Basket manga. I'll elaborate if someone wants me too... Oh, do. I'm curious now.  And yes-yes-yes to the whole "guys can't just be friends and/or rivals" thing - puts me in mind of that one thing that Ikkin posted on the other forum, which I sadly can't remember the link to. Naruto and Sasuke - case in point.  Although Axel and Roxas are way worse. I'm afraid I can't say anything about romance fanfiction, but slash/yaoi/yuri is so very annoying. D: Also, I remember very few multi-chapter fics that I actually read through and enjoyed. Possibly this is because I have a short attention span, but I think very few are worth reading. It's so much easier to find cute one-shots/drabbles than it is to find an epic or multi-chapter fanfic that's truly excellent. I can only think of a few off the top of my head... there was a KH fanfic called Axelerate that needs more love... and of course the classics - Those Lacking Spines, A Sorrow of Magpies, and my recent addiction, a Naruto fanfic called Blind which fulfills all my sad wishful thinking about Ssauke. XD; |
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ikkin
Villager
In possession of an angry phoenix. Very dangerous. Do not cross.
Posts: 73
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Post by ikkin on Sept 9, 2007 18:34:27 GMT -5
Ikkin: A-freaking-men. You know what's the worst though? The mysogynistic slash fangirls (and every once in a while, boys) who are under the impression that m/m is so much purer than m/f (or my secret shame, m/f/m). And it's basically just the same thing, except with matching genitals. I mean, the dynamics are the same- there is a submissive (i.e. feminine) partner and a dominant (i.e. masculine) partner. In fact, I'd say the average het fic makes more egalitarian/gender-positive statements than your average slash fic. It's mystifying really. Mystifying in the manner that it makes me want to place my head between my laptop's monitor and keyboard, then slam it shut repeatedly. And I'd say the worst example of this was the whole fiasco with Akito the not-guy in the Fruits Basket manga. I'll elaborate if someone wants me too... Yeah, I've heard about those types. Probably would have seen more of 'em if I didn't do my best to try to avoid yaoi in all shapes and forms. But I think what their real problem is that they have no creativity and think the only way to write a yaoi pairing is to have a "seme" and an "uke" and murder the characters to force them to fit that preconception (I mean, seriously... since when has Roxas done anything that would suggest that he's a whiny crybaby in need of Axel's protection/love? ; ). I've also seen yaoi fans complain about the stereotyping intrinsic to most slash fanfic, which is how you know it's gotten bad.  Still doesn't explain the misogynism, though. And it's not just that they think that yaoi's "more pure;" they go out of their way to hate on female characters with the excuse that they'd "get in the way of my OTP" or something. And then murder their characters to put them in the bad guy position in their stories. *headdesk* Subtext... >_< It tends to be taken way too far, while being used as a name for things that are several levels more obvious than what's generally considered subtext. I mean, on the one hand, you've got the crazy fans who say things like, "he said he'd care if he left! OTP!" or "his hand looked like it was on her rear (even though it was above her belt) when she was unconscious and falling off of his mount (even though he was the reason for said unconsciousness)! OTP!" and have that be "subtext." And on the other hand, these same fans say that things like a character looking at a canon-couple guy and girl dancing in a romantic context and imagine dancing with his female friend or blushing when he sees a second canon-couple guy and girl hugging (with his friends responding with, "I know who you're thinking about") are considered subtext as well. Not that I would really object to the second set of things being considered subtext if the word hadn't already been ruined by the first set; it doesn't seem right that "anvil-sized hints" and wishful thinking should be in the same category. ...though that's a pet peeve all of its own. >>; As for Freud... you know, if that's what they're basing their fanfics on, it's no wonder that fandom is as odd as it is. xD Pseudopsychology can be fun, though. >> On the other hand, I generally find diagnosing fictional characters with mental disorders to be more fun than using it to support 'ships. xD Hah, I bet they wouldn't be happy if you told them that... even though it's right. Really close friendships are always more fun to read about than romance anyway. ^^ And it does seem to take something away to say, "no, he didn't sacrifice all that because he was his friend, he did it because otherwise he couldn't do what he wants with him." Makes it seem a lot more selfish than it was intended to be, IMO. And yes-yes-yes to the whole "guys can't just be friends and/or rivals" thing - puts me in mind of that one thing that Ikkin posted on the other forum, which I sadly can't remember the link to. Axel and Roxas are perfect examples of everything the slash fans do wrong. >>;;; And it's unavoidable. D= I think I actually figured out why drabbles are, in general, much better than multi-chapter fanfic. See, drabbles and other short-fic tend to be focused on the characters, which does two things. One, it makes it a lot more likely that the type of people who write it are actually interested in the characters, and not just what they can make the characters do. And two, it gives the author more of an incentive to keep the characters in-character, because people are reading their stories for the characters. Or, it could just be that they're too short for the badness to be evident. *brick'd* |
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Elycien
Young Farmboy/girl
Posts: 120
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Post by Elycien on Sept 12, 2007 16:25:20 GMT -5
Here's one: Absolutely ridiculous situations that are meant seriously.
X3;;; I ran across one today while browsing FMA fanfiction. The summary was something like "Ed has a horrible drinking problem, can Roy help him before it's too late?" I laughed and looked at the genre, expecting to see "humor" or "parody" in there - the only context in which I can see Ed being a drunk - but oh no, this is seerius bizness here!.
I read the fanfic and it gets even worse. Ed is so out of character that he reminds me of the typical AkuRoku!Roxas. Sure, Ed can be angsty, but he doesn't DROWN HIS SORROWS, for heaven's sake. XD;;;; And he's not depressed either. I'm almost afraid to read on, next thing she's going to have him cutting or something...
Except it's not yaoi. And the only reason it's not yaoi, apparently, is because the author's mom isn't letting her. XD;;
Sadly I am not making this up, and it's not the only fanfic like that that I've seen. Sora isn't an angry drunk either. Why is this so appealing to fangirls? I have no idea...
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Post by Xicrog on Sept 12, 2007 16:28:15 GMT -5
You too? You'd like Tales of the Abyss, then...practically every character, hero or otherwise, has some kind of personality disorder.
Elcie: Okay, in the Furuba manga it turns out Akito was not, in fact, a guy but a girl crossdressing as a guy, and considering there was subtext previously that Akito had abused- possibly sexually- Yuki, the yaoi fangirls all had screaming hissyfits. IT WAS SO AWESOME. I give teh dramah that ensued two thumbs up. Kinda disproved their whole "gender doesn't matter!" spiel.
Ditto on the AkuRoku hate from Ikkin. WRITE SOMETHING ELSE KH FANDOM.
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ikkin
Villager
In possession of an angry phoenix. Very dangerous. Do not cross.
Posts: 73
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Post by ikkin on Sept 14, 2007 13:57:55 GMT -5
You too? You'd like Tales of the Abyss, then...practically every character, hero or otherwise, has some kind of personality disorder. Could be interesting. ^^ What platform is it on? This reminds me of another pet peeve of mine - abuse fics, in both senses of the term. I just don't get it. What's the appeal of making a normally-happy character's parents abuse them so they can ANGST about it? Or, even worse, turn another perfectly-nice character into an abuser? And then there's stuff like Ansem/Riku, which is just so wrong on so many levels. I mean... why?! |
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Post by Xicrog on Sept 14, 2007 14:02:50 GMT -5
Tales of the Abyss is a PS2 game.
Um, I guess the ANGST is the point. Some people like it. I don't.
Ooh, Ansem/Riku reminds me of Luke/Van (also Tales of the Abyss.) Hang on, I wrote a rant about it on my blog not too long ago, but I'll have to edit it because it flunks the family-friendliness rule.
This also begs the question of why fanbrats feel compulsed to pair up psychologically healthy characters with sociopaths. I think that Descendants of Darkness fandom is the worst about this, but Tales of... fandom can be bad too. Especially with the afforementioned Luke/Van, Jade/anything, and Solon/Jay.
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ikkin
Villager
In possession of an angry phoenix. Very dangerous. Do not cross.
Posts: 73
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Post by ikkin on Sept 14, 2007 15:41:01 GMT -5
Tales of the Abyss is a PS2 game. Um, I guess the ANGST is the point. Some people like it. I don't. Ooh, Ansem/Riku reminds me of Luke/Van (also Tales of the Abyss.) Hang on, I wrote a rant about it on my blog not too long ago, but I'll have to edit it because it flunks the family-friendliness rule. This also begs the question of why fanbrats feel compulsed to pair up psychologically healthy characters with sociopaths. I think that Descendants of Darkness fandom is the worst about this, but Tales of... fandom can be bad too. Especially with the afforementioned Luke/Van, Jade/anything, and Solon/Jay. Well, that works. ^^ I might check it out then. Yeah, it probably is... but, seriously. Most characters have enough stuff to angst about without fanbrats making up stupid stuff like that. Well, I don't know who Luke and Van are, so I can't say much about that. >> ..."Riku" and "psychologically healthy" don't belong in the same sentence, at least not at the point in the story the fanbrats would be writing for. xD Still really odd to support as a pairing, though. ...maybe they just refuse to believe that the sociopath is, indeed, a sociopath? Or they're following their pseudopsychology about sociopaths a little too well? |
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Post by Zylaa on Sept 14, 2007 22:30:40 GMT -5
Look, Riku has silver hair, so obviously he is wonderful and the dream pairing for any character the author chooses to drag up.
... That will probably be the sum of my contribution to this thread.
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ikkin
Villager
In possession of an angry phoenix. Very dangerous. Do not cross.
Posts: 73
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Post by ikkin on Sept 16, 2007 0:29:53 GMT -5
Look, Riku has silver hair, so obviously he is wonderful and the dream pairing for any character the author chooses to drag up. ... That will probably be the sum of my contribution to this thread. Silly, it's not because he has silver hair, it's because he's confident and would totally be a playa if he wasn't in a Disney game. ...yeah. >>; |
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Although Axel and Roxas are way worse.
